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Old 06-06-2018, 11:59 PM   #1
Pangaea95
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SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

I would like to wish all the members and staff a happy anniversary, we are in our 14th year together and it is with a heavy heart that I bear the news....not sure how to word this so I'm just gonna say it, the SAG will be going offline soon, due to our antiquated software failing and the unmanageable cost of replacing and rebuilding our current site. We have been seeking alternatives that would bring us up to the times and make us current with modern platforms. We have yet to find and make a decision as to where and what, but in the meantime to keep us all together and to be able to communicate updates and progress on current projects etc, we have set up a Facebook group for us. It is a private group for SAG members only and viewable by SAG members only and you will need to use your SAG user name to gain entry. Just follow link to apply for membership and when prompted answer entry question with your SAG user name

http://www.facebook.com/groups/sixtharmygroup

We are truly sorry for the inconvenience and will keep everyone updated, but do know, we are uncertain as to the stability of the board software and can not say with any certainty how long the forum will be accessible and are doing our best to come up with solution. WE appreciate your patience, and your participation, it's been a great 14 years, looking forward to many more!!!
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Old 06-07-2018, 01:58 AM   #2
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary

Gasp! I've been here since the first week. I know you guys have worked hard to keep it going. Is there any way to save all of the content?
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Old 06-07-2018, 02:28 AM   #3
tankfan0720
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary

I don't know which is worse news - hearing this site is going down, or having to use FB. I can't find anything on FB, except what the daily post is by someone. But "everyone is using it" these days so I guess it is inevitable to be assimilated.


Would it be possible to make a better site if people chipped in a little? I'm not opposed to yearly dues in the $20-25 range.


I subscribe to RCscalebuilder, its an awesome site, its not FB format, its available to people worldwide. People pay ($20 yearly, $150 lifetime) to subscribe. Seems to keep it going.


Is there a definite "off line" date for SAG?


I've enjoyed this site.-Bob

Last edited by tankfan0720; 06-07-2018 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:04 AM   #4
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary

Wow, that sucks. I guess it is what it is. Not interested in going back to Facebook, I have an account but stepped away from it a while back. Too much drama and click-bait.
I enjoyed my time here. So I guess it's goodbye.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:43 AM   #5
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary

Well it's been a fun and grand ride. I would definitely make a donation towards new equipment.

As far as FB goes, I don't go there. This has been my favorite one-sixth forum and can't even remember the last time I checked on any of the others. Guess I'll have to start looking.

I would like to thank all of the original start up people for this site, the moderators and all the members that I have enjoyed reading and responding to their posts. Feels like the end of an era.

Bye everyone, though maybe I'll see ya on other forums.

Leonard
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:50 AM   #6
Pangaea95
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary

Quote:
Originally Posted by tankfan0720 View Post
I don't know which is worse news - hearing this site is going down, or having to use FB. I can't find anything on FB, except what the daily post is by someone. But "everyone is using it" these days so I guess it is inevitable to be assimilated.


Would it be possible to make a better site if people chipped in a little? I'm not opposed to yearly dues in the $20-25 range.


I subscribe to RCscalebuilder, its an awesome site, its not FB format, its available to people worldwide. People pay ($20 yearly, $150 lifetime) to subscribe. Seems to keep it going.


Is there a definite "off line" date for SAG?


I've enjoyed this site.-Bob
We understand that many don’t use Facebook, but in a pinch it was easy to set up, we will also keep people updated on the Sixth Div as well should we go down, no def offline date but there is the need to prepare, as far as backing up data I personally have been printing up threads anc saving as .pdf’s, but beyond that I can’t say as we are unable to back the forum up as a whole. We are looking into Tapatalk and other platforms as an alternative
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:53 AM   #7
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary

The board will stay up, as-is, until the end of July when our hosting run s out. After that it will more than likely be a signpost pointing to the FB group until something else is arranged.

We have been struggling with this decision for the past few years. A number of factors, that just seem to add up, contribute to the decision.

1. Annual actual cash cost for board hosting. Currently it is about $600 per year and slowly goes up as the host has to maintain and monitor the antiquated system we are using to run the board. By modern software standards it is a huge mess of security patches on top of what is essentially an system that cannot be made secure. While there is nothing of any monetary value actually on our board, the vulnerabilities are a problem for the servers we run on and the other sites hosted on them. It is completely understandable why this increases risk, and thus costs, for the host.

2. We could upgrade to a new system, but the cost in cash, time and effort to upgrade the board is too great at the moment, especially time and effort. It would still cost around $500 a year (we use a lot of database space for all the posts our members have made in the past 14 years). There is no guarantee we could move the existing posts to a new system.

3. Lack of use, waning interest. I would have to go look at site stats to know for sure, but I think we all know the board just isn't as active as it once was.

4. Lastly, at least for me, it is a bit painful to see the board essential fall apart Things stop working and about the only thing we can do is say "sorry, old board, can't fix it".

It is that last reason, for me, I am loathe to do another member support drive. We could raise the $600 and keep it up another year, and possibly do that until we can no longer raise the money, but it feels sort of a cheat if the board isn't up to the standards it once held. Again, at least to me.


I have turned of the pagination on the posts. This means posts now show all on one page, some rather long. What this does is makes it easier to save posts on your own. You can just right click the page and do a "save as" and save it somewhere on your computer. You can also use the "Thread Tools" option and click "Show Printable Version" and either save that page or print it to a PDF if you want.

I want to thank Randy for being the driving force behind setting up the FB group and helping give us all a place to move to or simply keep in touch if we want.

Will keep you all informed of any news around the fate of the board.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:34 PM   #8
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Thanks Reese !!
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Old 06-08-2018, 04:33 PM   #9
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

I sent a PM to Pangaea95 and did not get a response yet, but I would suggest a vendor help carry the cost of the board, without requiring an undue marketing pressure on its members, and making sure the board keeps its independence

Field of Armor would LOVE to sponsor a board like yours, and make it integral of the FOA page as well. I've stopped my own board because the cost is prohibitive for such low traffic and FB offers a wider audience

But this board has a HUGE history, with 1,000s of incredible posts that would be missed by fan and builders alike

Armortek has a very lively board, and I'd love to replicate such an association for a customer base that I think is larger in the US than it is in the UK

My 2 cents

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Old 06-08-2018, 10:01 PM   #10
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Can't say I'm surprised.
I had major pc problems January of 2017, and lost all my basic files and images.
I'm going to make a point of saving back all my posts here back to my computer.
Must do the same in OSW as all these forums seem to sadly be a thing of the past.
Thanks for the heads up...
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:23 PM   #11
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Sorry to hear that. This group has been the best to come along since sliced bread.

As a user of TappaTalk...I'd steer clear. Hate the 6D since they switched.

Having been kicked and dragged screaming to FB by other club members and still haven't figured how to post pictures.

A suggestion would be to try Weebly....it's free...don't know if you can block out unwanted non members from viewing.

Here is a link to the SSCC Weebly site:

https://ssccohio.weebly.com/index.html

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Old 06-10-2018, 09:12 AM   #12
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

I find Facebook is OK for quick messages and updates on things but useless for long duration build threads where posts get added month on month. And if you join a number of related groups, you end up seeing the same post in all of them when people share things from their timeline.

If the vBulletin version of SAG is going to have to disappear anyway, why not do what Armortek did when they upgraded from WebWiz and do a "Blank Canvas" switch to phpBB, which is current and fully supported ?

Then there's no headaches with trying to do a cross-platform migration.

I realise there is still the issue with hosting costs but how about a $10 annual membership fee to access SAG? No fee, no access, so rather than being open to the public to view and requiring membership to post, it would require membership to view and post.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:45 PM   #13
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

I agree that fb hasn't shown itself to be the most adept at replacing message boards and would prefer a true board type site.

If I thought there was enough interest in keeping the board going I would consider migrating to another platform. I have a few friends who have moved there boards to new platforms in the past year or so and it hasn't been that difficult. Costs are always a concern even with free system software such as phpBB. The hosting costs we are currently paying include management of several popular systems such as vbulletin and XenForo. If we moved to one of those at least it would alleviate the need to monitor the system and fix it when the inevitable hacker tries to screw it up.


I spent some time looking at the few board statistics that are available. Some interesting trends.
I only have data from the time we moved to this system in December 2010

In December 2010 we were averaging 200 new topics each month, and about 1500 posts total each month.
By December 2012 we were averaging 120 new topics each month, and about 1000 posts total each month.
By December 2016 we were averaging 50 new topics each month, and about 300 posts total each month.
By end of May** 2018 we are averaging 30 new topics each month, and about 170 posts total each month.
**Spring and summer numbers are always lowest, winter highest so take that last number with a grain of salt.

Going by these numbers I doubt there would be enough interest to keep the board running on a pay per user basis.
There are several issues with charging membership fees especially monthly fees. It takes a bit of continual bookkeeping to keep it running fairly and smoothly, and that is just more time doing things I care not to do.
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:26 PM   #14
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Well fuck it all. This is horrible news.

Reese's SAG numbers say it all; specifically the decline of the WWII genre in the hobby, and the rise of Facebook and other social media platforms in the second decade of the 21st century to usurp the message boards of the first decade of the 21st century.

The greatest lost will be all the remaining work stored here on the forum.

I've joined the Facebook group; let me know if a donation will circulate for another forum option. I'd be glad to chip in.

When it all falls down... falls down... falls down...

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Old 06-10-2018, 08:41 PM   #15
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

One thing I do not understand is that although I do go to facebook, I don't see it as a replacement of a true 1/6 forum.
I see it as a complement to sharing the 1/6 hobby with a larger audience.
Been copying my posts in the OSW and found that the earlier posts have lost their photo links. In some cases I still save the written post as in the early days I used to do a lot of research to find a time and place for my bashes.
I recommend anyone that needs to get their posts or other info here, does it sooner better than later. You never know how a change might affect the information posted.

I know nothing of the technical information of these forums, but if reducing the amount of information in the threads would help, then I believe we could all work around having all posts made 10 years ago be purged.
I'm also willing to pitch in to keep the forum going.
I like the format of this forum, can't say the same of the Sixth Division new format...
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:00 AM   #16
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Haven't found any 1/6ers here in New Mexico. I really wish you'd keep the board going. For me it is the best. Unfortunately people don't post as often, which is sad. But logging in it is something I look forward to everyday.

I you need us to help financially I am willing to do so.

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Old 06-11-2018, 05:47 AM   #17
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

This bums me out. Don't do facebook thing. I would gladly pony up some money to keep this board running.
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:32 AM   #18
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

When I think of this board going down, and the camaraderie that has been built up over so many years that will now be lost, it reminds me of Gordon Lightfoot's song, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald".

Leonard
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:46 AM   #19
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

This is very sad news. I'm going to try but I really do Hate Facebook.
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:57 AM   #20
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder Tech View Post
When I think of this board going down, and the camaraderie that has been built up over so many years that will now be lost, it reminds me of Gordon Lightfoot's song, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald".

Leonard
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Thus the reason for FB at the moment, we don't want to lose this amazing group of ours, the FB in the long run is only a temp means to keep everyone together and updated. The free photo hosting is a nice feature, but there is also a feature to upload files such as .pdf's and we've been saving some great threads from here and uploading them as files to share as well as some amazing printable's!!! Once again it is a temp solution to keep us together until we find a more permanent home
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:25 AM   #21
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Yea.... but FB is a non-starter for me. I'd kick in $200 if it would help.

Leonard
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:34 PM   #22
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder Tech View Post
Yea.... but FB is a non-starter for me. I'd kick in $200 if it would help.

Leonard
RTT
Your generous offer is greatly appreciated Leonard, thank you, we will keep everyone posted as to our next move, should the site go down beforehand, we will post updates over at the Sixth Div and OSW as well as on the FB group.

We are also doing our best to preserve and save any remaining content of value that still has pic's hosted, after Photobucket cheesed out on us many of the threads here have lost their images sad to say, but there is still a wealth of material worth saving and we are doing what we can, some of it can be seen and downloaded from the FB page.

And once again so people are aware, the Facebook page is private, it's what they call a closed group and only it's members can view it's content, and that's why it is only going to be a temp home. The SAG has always been an open and free forum to share and help promote the craftsmanship and talent displayed in our hobby, a place to share ideas tips/tricks, help source materials, to display our projects and watch them develop through the course of the build, etc etc etc.....and Facebook is just not set up for that.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:42 PM   #23
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

I for one am not a facebook user, and have no intentions of starting up there.

Although it doesn't sound like there's a path here, I would be willing to donate to keep this board running, even if it's only on an interim basis until you find a new home for it.

Whatever happens, I want to thank you guys (Pangea95 and Sixth Vanguard), and the other mods and admins who have worked behind the scenes to keep this running for all these years. I can sincerely say that I've enjoyed watching the numerous builds and learned a hell of a lot from all of the artists and craftsmen and just plain nuts who've contributed here.

I hope you can find some way forward....if not, I'll be watching for you guys on OSW, but it just ain't the same....
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:27 PM   #24
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

it's a sad anniversary, SAG is my first board! and even, I didn't post a lot, every day, first thing i do on the internet is to came here, with my first coffee's cup! LOL
and at the end of my day, before going to bed, I just put an eye on the last posts! I met a lot of gentlemen here!



"guys you're like my family, I always please to learn what you make, what you buy,... and when there're sad news too, when someone, than I never saw in real, passed away... I'm touched"


I hope this board will continue, and if you need some bucks to pay for servers,... I'm in, too!


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Old 06-13-2018, 08:16 PM   #25
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Well this totally bites! I don't suppose there is a way to migrate the board and members over to the Sixth Division or even OSW, sort of fall in line with the other boards as a subset or something. I know the point of the board was to maintain integrity of certain eras but with a shrinking overall population of hobbyists it would be better to band together as opposed to staying fractured / splintered.

I know I will NEVER join FB, and I'm sure those that remained here did so for the same reason, we don't want to be on FB.

I know the Sixth Division has been suffering the same low numbers, which is why I suggested the migration if possible.....not trying to get anyone riled up.

Hopefully another option wil present itself.
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Old 06-14-2018, 03:49 AM   #26
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

If the moderator(s) could keep our email contact info and let us know if a forum starts up after FB. Since I will not join or use FB, will not learn of any new forum in the future.

Leonard
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:33 AM   #27
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

I wouldn't be opposed to migrating posts to non-commercial places like the SD or OSW (is the OSW still non-commercial?), I just don't think it is possible, at least not without a great deal of work.

Leonard, I will make sure to send you an email if the board goes down and we eventually reopen somewhere other than FB

I could open a donation drive someplace such as gofundme, Patreon or even good old PayPal, and if there is enough interest and we make the goal we keep it up. I can't guarantee if anything disastrous happens to the board in the next year that I can fix it. Maintenance is nearly impossible. If we make double thee goal then there would be enough to invest in new board software and our current host does include free maintenance of a few systems, so that would be worth it.

I really just can't make any promises so I don't like to have people invest without setting expectations.

Let's all think about it for a bit.

I would love to see the board stay going. Even though the volume of posts has been very much down the quality of what is getting posted amazes me still. I would also like to keep supporting the people that produce all the goodies we see, such as Dave of Armorpax, John of ECA and Loic of FOA (and maybe one day we can convince Steve of Panzerwerk to open shop again ). A part of me feels like they are losing a bit more than the average SAG'er if the board goes down.

There are always options
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:45 AM   #28
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Reese...please start a fundraiser.

True the number of views have gone down and a lot of the 'old timers' aren't around anymore....but you see a lot of new 'handles' appearing on the site.
Like Sherman 1...I check the Board several times a day.


You started " if we make double the goal...." how much are we talking about $500, 1K, 1.5K ?

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Old 06-15-2018, 08:01 AM   #29
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Quote:
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Reese...please start a fundraiser.

True the number of views have gone down and a lot of the 'old timers' aren't around anymore....but you see a lot of new 'handles' appearing on the site.
Like Sherman 1...I check the Board several times a day.


You started " if we make double the goal...." how much are we talking about $500, 1K, 1.5K ?

A one year, keep as-is goal is $600, so double that would get us one year PLUS new modern and (hopefully) more secure system software wit a little extra to spare.

If I do open a fundraiser and we don't meet the first one-year goal I would of course refund all donations. If we go over the one year but not meet the double goal, I think I would apply the remainder to another fundraiser next year. Have to see how it goes.

Sound about right and fair?
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:42 PM   #30
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Great plan and what I was hoping for. Plus it is "right and fair"

When do we start?
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:52 PM   #31
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Count me in.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:32 PM   #32
Ostfront43
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Standing by $$
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:47 PM   #33
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

I'm ready too. $$$



I don't want this board (or the 6th Division) going anywhere. There is way too much valuable information and the history of 1/6th is on these boards as well.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:37 PM   #34
Rolling Thunder Tech
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Hello Mission Control
Standing by $$

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Old 06-16-2018, 12:45 AM   #35
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Count me in also.
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:01 PM   #36
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary

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Originally Posted by USMCPrice View Post
Wow, that sucks. I guess it is what it is. Not interested in going back to Facebook, I have an account but stepped away from it a while back. Too much drama and click-bait.
I enjoyed my time here. So I guess it's goodbye.
Guess I lied. Joined the Facebook group last night because my son (SgtPriceUSMC on this board, and I didn't realize he was a member here until the last couple months), sent me a screen shot of a photo shoot from ya'lls Facebook page.

I like the idea of the fundraiser, I contributed to the previous one and would do so again. (Do we get a bronze star in lieu of a second award on our ribbon?-Just kidding)

One other question. I like the closed Facebook group, keeps problems out, but it also keeps out potential new members. Could you open a second, parrallel Facebook page where you repost pictures and such (teasers), but scrubbed of the original posters data, and provide a link back to this board for those who want to see more? Might draw in some new blood and get the participation here back up.

BTW, he's got something big planned (the son). He's painting and building like a madman. Stay tuned it will blow you away. He's just finishing repainting a number of my vehicles in Marine Corps green, supplies are piling up, vehicles and equipment are being modified, standby for a 1/6 battle like you've never seen!

Last edited by USMCPrice; 06-16-2018 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:14 PM   #37
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary

Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCPrice View Post
Guess I lied. Joined the Facebook group last night because my son (SgtPriceUSMC on this board, and I didn't realize he was a member here until the last couple months), sent me a screen shot of a photo shoot from ya'lls Facebook page.

I like the idea of the fundraiser, I contributed to the previous one and would do so again. (Do we get a bronze star in lieu of a second award on our ribbon?-Just kidding)

One other question. I like the closed Facebook group, keeps problems out, but it also keeps out potential new members. Could you open a second, parrallel Facebook page where you repost pictures and such (teasers), but scrubbed of the original posters data, and provide a link back to this board for those who want to see more? Might draw in some new blood and get the participation here back up.

BTW, he's got something big planned (the son). He's painting and building like a madman. Stay tuned it will blow you away. He's just finishing repainting a number of my vehicles in Marine Corps green, supplies are piling up, vehicles and equipment are being modified, standby for a 1/6 battle like you've never seen!

Thanks for the awesome post , i know a lot of folks have strong feelings about facebook , I did too till I learned how to use it , first off you pretty much have total control over your account as in who is your friends , who see's your posts , and what you post can be set so only certain folks see it, second if you think its a personal privacy thing and your worried about those things , I understand , but if you already have a smart phone , that info is already out there and facebook will get nothing more from you except what you share with them .
also , the features for the page we set up have great options , I put up all my printable items in PDF , including some great pages I found on the web of misc WWII items , it will be easier for loading up documents like instructions and you cant beat the free photo hosting .
you can also load up a fake name account ,just make it real sounding and set up a email just for that account .

Again I do understand if you do not want too , I know Reese has gone over backwards to keep this board going , its a ton of work for him and money , but were dead in the water .
we could find new software and do a new board but again in 4-5 years that will be outdated and we will be right back here dead in the water , at least with facebook they handle all the updates and take care of the security , and its free .
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:37 PM   #38
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

me too. i can pay some...where can i join the FB group?




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Old 06-17-2018, 09:54 PM   #39
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

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Old 06-18-2018, 01:18 PM   #40
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Whatever you all decide, I know I have slipped also on posting.
Maybe because Dragon has not made any 1/6 scale stuff in awhile.
Still wanted a 88MM, T-34/ , Panzer III.

So in whichever way you go.
But I see also a lot have left John is one not the John from East coast neither.

I really do not do FB, have an account for years thought , never liked the whole world looking in though.

Cheers


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Old 06-19-2018, 11:27 PM   #41
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

I'm ready to pitch in too... would like to see SAG continue...
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Last edited by egonzinc; 06-21-2018 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 06-24-2018, 10:56 PM   #42
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

Has a final decision been made that the site is going to move to Facebook?
Was hoping that SAG would start a contribution campaign like you did once before....am sure there is enough of us that prefer this site over Facebook and think you can raise the funds needed to keep going..
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:47 AM   #43
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Re: SAG 14th Anniversary - and announcement

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Has a final decision been made that the site is going to move to Facebook?
Was hoping that SAG would start a contribution campaign like you did once before....am sure there is enough of us that prefer this site over Facebook and think you can raise the funds needed to keep going..
I am creating a new thread with the maintenance fund details right now. Hopefully we can keep this community going.
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