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Old 01-31-2007, 09:53 PM   #1
Tony Barton
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British Camo Smocks

I know many folks here on SAG know all about these things , but there is so much confusion about this subject , and I've had time for a little painting today , I thought I'd post some pictures and an explanation which I hope will help sort these things out . The arrival of " Wes Worthy " from DML also means that lots of people will be wondering whether he's right or not : the topic is live on this and other forums .

FIRST : brief historical explanation : There were two Camo smocks issued to British troops in WW2 , and they were rather different :

1) The Denison smock [ 1 in the pic below ]: this was designed for Paras , and used by all Airborne troops , and later by others like Commandos who could get hold of them . It was lined , had a short zip down from the neck , but NO HOOD . The Camo varied a bit between batches , but was on a tan/light khaki base , with dark brown and dark green overpainting , often showing real or printed brushmarks . This is the characteristic garment worn by British Paras , and continued in use post-war , often fitted with a full-length zip . One-sixth Versions of this have been supplied with DML " Ian " , "Harry Collins " etc, and with the BBI " Roger Cooke " figure , which is probably the best .

2) The Windproof smock : this was unlined , made of much thinner fabric , had a hood and a matching pair of trousers , and a different camo pattern , with a pink base , and Plum Crimson , pale green and Dark brown overprinting ( the dark brown happened when the crimson and green overlapped ). It was issued to all sorts of troops , chiefly the Line Infantry , and was really only in use during the last winter of the War , 44/45 .
Post War it continued in use for about 20 years , again by all sorts : by Infantry in Korea , and Special Forces like the SAS everywhere : IT WAS NOT a Special Forces Garment , and calling it an " SAS Smock " is just plain wrong .
The one-sixth versions which have appeared , with DML" Oscar MacKinnon " , with the CustomCraft Black Watch Figure , and now with " Wes Worthy " have all got the cut right but the Camo wrong ;
Look at the pic :



At 1) is the Denison smock : this is the BBI version , which has the best colouring .Fine .

At 2) is the WINDPROOF smock from DML ( notice the hood ): Wrong Camo : it should look like :-

3) Which is my repaint : the colours are not perfect yet ( I'm working on it ) but you can see how very different it is from 2).

At 4) is a daylight photo of the real thing , from which I'm trying to match the paint : make allowance for the slight White-out effect on the printed photo .

The colours on my repaint are too stark : these Windproofs quickly got faded and dirty , so here's another showing a weathered version , again compared with the DML unmodified version and another photo :



I hope this will clarify things : sorry to be a bit of a rivet-counter , but I think you can see why people are so disappointed with these figures .
By the By , the Windproof suit was not a common Sniper suit : I know of two veteran British snipers , neither of whom ever saw one : they used the Denison instead .
Once I've finished my painting experiments I'll post a little tutorial and make some suggestions for paint choices .


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Old 01-31-2007, 10:40 PM   #2
Pangaea95
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Quote:
the Windproof suit was not a common Sniper suit : I know of two veteran British snipers , neither of whom ever saw one : they used the Denison instead
I've read some accounts and based my sharpshooter on this giving him the dennison smock.

But after some more reading and some pic's I may give him an SS camo smock

Great camo comparison Tony, always good to see a nice study on camo, your pattern is coming along nicely, very informative post, thanks for sharing
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:32 PM   #3
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Good info here Tony. Lots of carping coming from the ranks, at least we're seeing some Allied stuff even if there are some errors. By the look of your experiments with colour you might have a solution in the works.

Is it me or is the pattern on the real smocks different?
The edges of No. 4 seem to be random and ragged.
The edges of the weathered version seem to be more geometric and defined.

Did you bleach it out before painting?
Does the paint harden the fabric?
Could it be laundered to soften the colours?

Geoff
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:34 PM   #4
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Excellent post Tony and thanks for the lesson. I have seen the numerous posts around the boards about how "such and such is wrong" but no one ever took the time to explain what it was that was in error, so it didnt matter to me. Now I know a bit more, thanks
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:11 AM   #5
chung814
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Very good research!! My question will be the same as Johnny's. And eagerly waiting for your experiment result and DIY, too. Thanks again!!
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:26 AM   #6
Johnny Canuck
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This thread got me curious so I pulled out all the Denisons that I have.
Below are a number of varying colours. Style seems to be more or less consistant but the colours whoa!



From what Tony is saying the only one that really comes even close is the "Battle Worn" version.



Geoff
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:43 AM   #7
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Geoff -- I think as Tony points out -- the difference is the Windproof Smock vs. the Denison Smock.

The Denison (no hood, zippered with the snaps closure at the crotch) was for paras and later scrounged by commandos and others. The Windproof (hooded, drawstring closures at neck and waist) was used by commandos.

Its the Windproof smock that Tony has altered and suggests the camo is wrong.

The Denisons varied somewhat, as Tony points out, from some that were actually hand painted to some of the ones produced with a printed fabric as I understand.

Your photo lineup example shows different versions of the two different smocks. The Custom Craft and the (second from left) DML version are Windproof smocks. The rest are Dennison's. The Wes Worthy smock and trousers are the Windproof set used by commandos.

The first Windproof smock to hit the 1/6 arena was I believe the FK&C Oscar McKinnon SAS Commando released by DML a couple years ago.

If I misinterpreted and am overstating the obvious, please accept my apologies.

As for Tony, thanks so much for this project. I have been itching to ask someone over at OSS to demonstrate this very thing, particularly the camo pattern issues.
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTFazz";p=&quot View Post
Geoff -- I think as Tony points out -- the difference is the Windproof Smock vs. the Denison Smock.

Its the Windproof smock that Tony has altered and suggests the camo is wrong.

The Denisons varied somewhat, as Tony points out, from some that were actually hand painted to some of the ones produced with a printed fabric as I understand.

Your photo lineup example shows different versions of the two different smocks. The Custom Craft and the (second from left) DML version are Windproof smocks. The rest are Dennison's. The Wes Worthy smock and trousers are the Windproof set used by commandos.

The first Windproof smock to hit the 1/6 arena was I believe the FK&C Oscar McKinnon SAS Commando released by DML a couple years ago.

If I misinterpreted and am overstating the obvious, please accept my apologies.

As for Tony, thanks so much for this project. I have been itching to ask someone over at OSS to demonstrate this very thing, particularly the camo pattern issues.
Good thing I got up this morning as I'm learning something.

So correct me if I'm wrong here.
The Denison was the camo that would have been used by the Scout/Sniper platoons which "Wes Worthy" would be a member of and therefore he is actually in the wrong uniform?
The Windproof Smock was used by Commandos and was coloured like the Battle Worn model? (more or less)

Which of the above Denisons actually represent an real uniform colour and pattern if any?

Geoff
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Old 02-01-2007, 03:02 AM   #9
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Guys, re-read Tony's post, especially item 2. If I am reading it correctly, the windproof smock was not a "commando" uniform item but issued to frontline troops in general.
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Old 02-01-2007, 03:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixth Vanguard";p=&quot View Post
Guys, re-read Tony's post, especially item 2. If I am reading it correctly, the windproof smock was not a "commando" uniform item but issued to frontline troops in general.
Thanks Teach, " Dunt gut much book learnin eh!"

The Denison was originally a Para item; that was rare amongst line infantry, but prized by Scout/Snipers.

The Windproof Smock was more common in line infantry after late 44' and the available 1/6 versions are wrong.

Am I getting closer. Or just brain farting?

Geoff
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