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German Collar Litzen Question?


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Pangaea95

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: German Collar Litzen Question? Download Post Reply with quote

Ok, as strange as it may seem coming from me, I have a question on collar litzen. For those who don't know what litzen is, it's the collar insignia worn on the collars of the Wehrmacht Heer(army) tunic's. There are several classes of litzen(officers/others ranks/etc), in addition to theater specific(tropical/etc), and they had two colored stripes indicating their branch of service ala the waffenfarbe/pipping on the shoulderboards.

My question is geared towards the enlisted/other ranks litzen, in searching for images online to use for making some insignia for my DAK troopers I came across some pic's of litzen and was wondering if this is what they really look like off the uniform?. In this link to the page with the litzen, they show that cutting and folding is needed to properly attach to the uniform. Having played with dollies for so long, I'm beginning to wonder how accurate the insignia we are using is, and some cool ways to make printed insignia look better Mr. Green

Page With Pic's Of Litzen
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JTFazz

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject:  Download Post Reply with quote

Well I am certainly wading into the deep end without so much as water wings, but let me clarify something.

The Litzen on that particular page are already "cut" and "folded" right?

They do link to another page that shows how to modify what you get from them to make it look appropriate. The unfinished litzen shown below...

Image

http://www.atthefront.com/litzen.htm


Here is a link to more "unfinished" litzen from another supplier.
http://www.epier.com/store/outpostflags/viewitem.asp?id=41509

I have never been a big fan of the collar insignia that comes with most of the DML figures. The litzen and other collar insignia from BGT (below) is pretty nice and also has to be cut down before applying to collars. It seems to jibe with what you see at AtTheFront.com. I do think that its a bit too detailed to be completely represented at this scale, however. There are just too many details in the weave that we could never get just right.

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Pangaea95

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject:  Download Post Reply with quote

The embroidered stuff looks nice, but after seeing what real litzen looks like, feel the CVI style of cloth printed insignia might be a better approach(not so much 3d effect). Also in reading, when the M40 uniform came out with the matching field gray collars they stopped using the backing which makes the embroidered boards more suited for use on an early war figure, or officer. Being the officers wore embroidered boards the Battlegear one's would be choice.

The weave would be impossible to simulate in 1/6th, but in looking at the unfinished litzen you posted with 1/6th eyes, is there maybe a material that might work well for this? CVI's insignia is nice, but kinda thin to simulate the folds, and I'll be dammed if I'm gonna cut and fold 1/6th litzen LOL Any ideas for a thicker more suited material?
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JTFazz

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject:  Download Post Reply with quote

Pangaea95 wrote (View Post):

I'll be dammed if I'm gonna cut and fold 1/6th litzen LOL Any ideas for a thicker more suited material?


Laughing Laughing

I don't know, I am already somewhat out of my element. My Jerries have been neglected for almost a year now as I have explored Commonwealth troops along with my first love -- US troopers.

If you are going to print the Litzen, the choices for material are awfully limited in terms of printing right on a given material. I am thinking maybe finding a material and then ironing on an image... I don't know, but I will give it some more thought.

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Pangaea95

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject:  Download Post Reply with quote

Thanks Ty, gonna have to take a trip to Joannes, printing on fabric, especially small pieces for litzen is no problem, as far as the weave, I'm wondering if there is maybe some sort of ribbon, or edging material that might work well, they tend to have interesting weaves that might suit this purpose.

I always imagined litzen as an embroidered type of insignia, I was quite taken to see that it is just cloth with some colored ribbon, at least as far as others ranks goes.
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JTFazz

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject:  Download Post Reply with quote

Ribbon in that width may be a tall order. I think that is one of the things I was trying to get around to but didn't articulate it well... too many distractions at my nine-year-old's bedtime.

JKM Ribbons has some as thin as 1/16th, but even that looks a bit too wide for the outer strips.

The only thing smaller is Satin cord at 1/32, but its not flat obviously.

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Frasmet

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:55 pm    Post subject:  Download Post Reply with quote

Here's an idea print it onto athletic tape. Any fuzziness from the printing can be painted over. I'd just print outlines and paint the detail on. The tape's adhesive lend itself to some sculpting to get the desired 3D effect, and by careful selection of the brand of tape you can vary the texture.
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Heeresbergführer

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:59 am    Post subject:  Download Post Reply with quote

Grüß Gott Kameraden,

Here is a set of original Gebirgsjäger EM Litzen on a dark green backing and an Officer Litzen below for comparison:

Image


Horrido!

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Pangaea95

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:01 am    Post subject:  Download Post Reply with quote

Those are great pic's Patrick, thank you Exclamation Any chance I could get the measurement of the lizten without the backing, just the litzen itself from the EM set you posted. I think I may give folding the edges a try, might be easier than cutting the CVI style printed litzen out.
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JTFazz

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject:  Download Post Reply with quote

Randy,

I checked a few threads over the Wehrmacht-Awards militaria forum and came up with these pics and info. Litzen was applied in both ways. I think there was some discussion about how and when the litzen were applied to collars and by whom, apparently making some difference in the technique.

Anyway, here are a couple more looks, including a side by side of the Litzen sewed direct to the collar and one on backing or "bases."

Image
Image

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