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Foreign forces under US command in WWII

A

AllanW

Platoon Leader
I know that, during WWII, in the European/North African theater all forces were under the overall comand of Eisenhower and, therefore, the US. But within this structure there were many units under the "british" umbrella and which wore essentially British uniform : Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, Indians, South Africans, Poles etc.

Several questions :

1. I saw reference to a Brazilian Expeditionary Force fighting in Italy. I can only presume that they were operating under US command. Does that mean that the US forces, like the "British", had identifiable units belonging to other countries within their direct chain of command and wearing essentially US uniform ?

2. If so, which countries had indentifiable units fighting within the US military structure ?

3. At what point did the Free French switch from wearing essentially a British uniform to a US one ?

4. Did this change-over mean that the Free French switched from being under British command to US command in theory - that is to the extent that De Gaulle's attitide meant they were ever truly under "command" ?

Allan
 
Thats a good question but I think the only military units wearing US uniforms were US soldiers since the US has never been an imperial power the UK had a very far flung empire at that time which included all those countries you mentioned.

as for countries under US command thats just the way the command structure went and Eisenhower didn't rule with an iron fist he was simply the figurehead of the allied force in the ETO likewise was McArthur in the PTO

thas kind of a basic rundown and I may be wrong about some things but I'll look around and see if I can get some proof to backup my claims
 
I won't nit-pick over whether Australia, Canada, New Zealand were colonies at the time or dominions (ie essentially self-governing). Nor will I dwell on the fact that British forces included units from countries like Poland or Norway that had no such relationship. I certainly agree that Eisenhower led allied forces with considerable skill, tact and flexibility.

But none of this was really the purpose of the question. I have since found the following reference which confirms that the Brazilian Expeditionary Force was under US command and wore US uniforms :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Expeditionary_Force

Did any other countries do similar in the European or North African theaters ?

Did the Free French wear uniforms very similar to US uniform ?
 
I didn't think you were arguing and I certainly didn't take any offence. It is I who should apologise if I made it seem so. I, too, was surprised to find out about the Brazilians.
 
Hi, About the french troops in US uniforms, all was US except the rank insigna, the headgears (garrison caps, sailor berets, kepis) and in rare cases the helmets. Some old french helmets can be seen on pictures from the Provence landing.
My father was in 2nd french tank division during WWII and his uniform was all US except his garrison cap (blue with red pippings and a small yellow metal anchor on the front).
 
AllanW";p="60240 said:
1. I saw reference to a Brazilian Expeditionary Force fighting in Italy. I can only presume that they were operating under US command. Does that mean that the US forces, like the "British", had identifiable units belonging to other countries within their direct chain of command and wearing essentially US uniform ?

2. If so, which countries had indentifiable units fighting within the US military structure ?
Click to expand...

Allan - The command structure was the "Allied Powers" command structure. Eisenhower reported to both Churchill and Roosevelt in this role. It's not so black and white - nor is NATO today that black and white.

I believe that the uniform that various countries wore in Western Europe while under allied control was not necessarilly a direct result of command relationships but more a matter of logistics. Those forces in exile equiped in Britian and incorporated into British command structures were equipped by the British as a matter of practicallity. As for the Free French, that probably had something to do with DeGaul not wanting the British telling him what to do (not that the Americans were able to do much better at this) - but I'm guessing.

There is a BBC series on WWII called The World at War - one of the episodes talks about the broad coalition of forces in Italy. It would be worth your time to track it down.
 
WARNING - Off topic - Did you know Ethiopia sent troops to fight in Korea? Apparently they were amazing at wireless comms, and on moonless nights went on patrol naked, so that they knew anyone they touched wearing clothes were enemy!
From S.L.A. Marshall's excellent "Porkchop Hill"
 
Leatherneck,

You're speaking of the interview with Mark Clark commander of the 5th Army in Italy.

He had at the time of the battles of Monte Cassino the US II Corps, British X Corps, New Zealand II Corps, and U.S. VI Corps as well as the Free French Expeditionary Corps which was commanded by Gen. Alphonse Juin. The FEC had the 2nd and 3rd Algerian Div and 4th Mnt Morracan Div while the New Zealand Corps had the 4th Indian and 2nd NZ Div. There are many other Divisions in these Corps but those were the foreign ones under U.S. command. After the Gothic Line campaign, additional forces included the 1st Brazillian Div, the Italian Legnano Combat Group, and the 6th Amd South African Div which transferred from the British 8th Army.

I hope this can help.
 
The New Zealand troops were an independent command after the bulls ups in WW1, they wernt going to be used as cannon fodder by the poms again.
 
The Brazilians were originally equipped with their own uniforms, but the quality was low and they tended to come apart at the seams. By the time they got into combat, they were clothed and equipped completely with US gear. There was infantry, artillery, and an air unit as well, the 1st Fighter Group, "Senta a Pua!" They flew Republic P-47 Thunderbolts, and were, by their own account, superior at finding ground targets as they were trained to navigate from terrain, not maps. This meant they looked out of the cockpit more than the average allied pilot, and thus found more targets.

A friend of mine on the Brazilian board "Escala 1 Sexto" bashed a Brazilian pilot a short time back. I meant to translate the post and put it here but I forgot. :oops:

Brazilian WWII Pilot

Another thing they did differently from the US pilots was to wear the bomber-style jackets. Being used to warm weather they felt the cold more keenly than did the US pilots.
 
Now thats interesting. I saw Jon Gawne's U.S. Army photo album in Borders and I noticed a pic of Brazillian officers in Italy. They were wearing a pine green looking uni blending French and Italian designs. They did look fragile. The French were heavily supplied by the American forces after North Africa.
 
drummerboy";p="64029 said:
You're speaking of the interview with Mark Clark commander of the 5th Army in Italy.

As well as the Free French Expeditionary Corps which was commanded by Gen. Alphonse Juin? The FEC had the 2nd and 3rd Algerian Div and 4th Mnt Morracan Div while the New Zealand Corps had the 4th Indian and 2nd NZ Div.
Click to expand...

Hi if I can have more info on the French Army.
The French corp. under General Juin command was the CEF Corps Expeditionnaire Français - French expeditionary Corps (not the FFEC).
At this moment there are no more official Free French units. The CEF and the rest of the French fighting on the Allies side are the French Army. It has been build by melting the Free French forces and the rest of the French Army (mainly the Colonial forces in North Africa). The Anfa meeting decide to arm with modern weapon all those units who then fight under French direct command.

The unit that you have mention where on the bigger part builded with the rest of the former French army units (ex Vichy’s troops).

You have several exceptions:

In Italy the 1st DFL (Free French Division) was still a free French group that had some relationship problems with the rest of the CEF. Most of those men fought during all the war. The relationships with the others members of the French Army was always hard. They used part of British uniform in order to let the others French that they fought in the British Army at the BEGINNING of the war…
The 2nd DB (Division Blindée) on the western front, under general’s Leclerc Command was partly made with “pure” free French men and former regular army “ex Vichy” troops. The beginning was hard but when the unit land on French soil at Utha Beach in July 44 the unit gained is “esprit de corps”.
The “N°4 Commando” French Commando Marine who landed on 6th June was 100% Free French. But de Gaulle never forgives the officer who builds this unit (Kieffer) to operate under British command. The retaliation after the war was that no French Marine commando has “kieffer” for name. The tradition in those units is to give a former officer for a commando name.
In the Navy few boats where purely free French until the end of the war. The French navy was almost 100% for Petain and never rejoined de Gaulle. The French navy that did not self destructed itself at Toulon (shame on them until the end of time) join the rest of the French Army after the landing of allies in 1942.
In the Air Force, a lot of squadrons where purely Free French notably the Normandie-Niemen group that fought on the Russian side.

For the Dragoon operation and the rest of the war all the French forces fought in the 1ere Armée Française (1st French Army) under General de Lattre de Tassigny command. You have two exceptions the 2eme DB and the N°4 Commando
The 2eme DB stayed under the US command and the Commando under the British command.

The uniform and weapon used by those men where US (or British for the Commando). In order to frenchize the uniform a lot of them used French head covers.

Hope that helps.
Regards to all.
 
I forget the 2 French Squadron of the SAS regiment that of course was 100 % Free French and stayed until the end under british Command.
 
I think the question of US or British uniforms & equipment is very much down to what supply-chain the troops were in. If, say, French troops were attached to a larger US formation (along the lines of a corps, army, or army group) it would only be logical to supply them with US kit.
 
My father in december 1944, as you can see the uniform is US and the cap is french.
marlotpierrebm5.png
 
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